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UPD: Escape Beta 3
(12 Oct 2005 at 23:33) |
By popular request, I have added bombs to Escape. These are pretty cool, but you might as well play the tutorial in order to see how they work. Since I also added a bunch of new features (like bookmarks) and did some graphical cleanup, I'm calling this a "beta 3". There's been a recent slowdown in Escape activity since everyone is going back to school (etc.), so I'm hoping that this will help pick things up.
Also, since the old feedback thread has gotten way too long, I've started this post as the new one.
Enjoy! |
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Unrelated suggestion:
I would recommend that you rename "Crap Art" to "Draft Art" thus eliminating the tone of anti-elitism and allowing a connection for those who want to take next steps in their artistic exploration. There certainly should be nothing wrong with wanting to refine and elevate original ideas that are found in the original process.
Also, please edit item #4 in your description of crap art.
Otherwise, this seems to be a noble pursuit.
|
Whoa, so much new stuff! Them bombs are pretty cool, I reckon. Haven't tried the bookmarks yet, but I'll bet they come in real handy on the insanely difficult puzzles (which are unfortunately all I've got left!)
One minor question about the C (checkpoint) key: does it just do the same thing as S?
(Hmm, and as I type this, it occurs to me that perhaps the answer is in escape.txt. Oh, well, please ignore the question if so; I'll go check that next...)
P.S. I heartily approve of both the anti-elitist tone and rule #4. |
| mjn: Yes, 'c' is the same as 's', I just wanted to use a different name in the menu (I thought 'save', which is why it was 's' in the first place, would be confusing). |
| Am I missing a way to delete bookmarks? |
For now you gotta do it from the "solution manager" (press ctrl-m on a level), but you can only get to the solution manager if you've solved the level. Also, solving the level will delete all your bookmarks.
Yes, I realize how ridiculous this is. |
Is there any equivalent file to "escape.txt" (mjn is talking about) for Mac OS X? Downloading escape-beta-osx.zip once more did not help. I've just no clue at all what I might be missing... -> maybe explanations for shortcuts?
Nice work, "cute" bombs - even so they can't be cute by definition ;-)
|
| Ok, well, I hope you fix this known ridiculous situation some time soon. Nonetheless it is a great feature. |
| vote bush |
Kirima: escape.txt is the same for all of the platforms. It comes inside the Escape "app" on mac osx (browse inside the icon to find it), or you can just read it online:
http://escape.spacebar.org/win32/escape.txt
.. but it doesn't explain everything yet. =( |
More munitions musing: Daleks can go through teleports, but bombs can't?
Also, puzzles are made harder from the fact that you don't know how long a bomb's fuse is until you actually move it. (Might be nice if the countdown was initially indicated on the bomb.) |
| Should teleporting onto a heart framer pick it up? |
Heart framers: It's not obvious what the answer should be. Generally, things are activated by stepping onto them. It's true that panels are an exception to this, but they are an exception to almost everything. ;) But, the point is sorta moot since they've been around for so long... I don't change old behavior unless there's an incontrovertible bug!
Nothing can be pushed into a teleport, even Daleks. Since bombs don't move on their own, there's no way for them to go through teleports.
As for seeing bomb fuses, it's a kind of hidden information like bot numbers and panel destinations. A plan for the future is to have a key that shows these things, since I don't believe in hidden information. But, showing the timer numbers all the time just makes bombs too ugly (like showing dests or bot numbers would). |
Idea:
Could effects of rating own levels be neutralized? I've rated a few of mine accidentally and I really don't think that you're the best person to say how good your own levels are. Also, it's possible to give 10's to all of your own levels to boost the score, which is kind of unfair. |
I could do it, but since it's really easy to game the system in other ways, I'd rather just foster a sense of community where dishonest ratings are frowned upon. If you notice any instances of abuse, let me know and I can fix it.
|
Rouge-like turned to rouge-hate!
;-)
Mais en fait, j'adore la couleur rouge. |
Rouge-like turned to rouge-hate!
;-)
Mais en fait, j'adore la couleur rouge. |
| Je m'excuse, mais c'est vrai, twice -> really two times red hate-like as if, I just have no clue. |
| Man that is confusing. ;) I guess you're saying you don't like my new level? |
| It is very sneaky. |
Yes. But I DO like your new level, 'cause it seems to be intelligent and just cool, but I do not have ANY clue and this just makes me feel REALLY stupid and BLUE.
Rouge-like equals Bleu-sans.
Je sais, il y en a une solution, je trust you.
|
Je do!
En fait, il faut comprendre la langue universelle de n'importe quoi, personne ne s'intéresse à la langue "JUSTE".
Mon INPUT, c'est DIE Idee de s'entretenir en N'importe quelle LANGUAGE.
We do speek Sprache.
We do speek.
You and I.
We do verstehen us.
J'aimerai de begin to start quelquechose.
Tu est VERY begabt.
Grab-Speach
I'll do it.
And you, too. |
Well, I guess I kind of understand! But it's pretty hard.
Don't worry if some levels are tough. There are still 70 levels that I haven't beaten! (And some that make me feel quite stupid...)
Rouge-like tries to trick you. It "leads you down the garden path.." |
| You got it, when I speak like this, it's hard to understand and it's confusing - just the way rouge-like does confuse and leads to nowhere - it's really tricky, but I like the level a lot, I guess I do because it's so confusing. |
| Hah, okay, you got me. ;) |
;-)
I finally got "it", too! |
| I think bombs beg the introduction of "mines", just like bombs except they have no fuse so you can move them around wherever without them exploding. These will allow for more exciting chain reactions... |
| That's a good idea, max. I'll have to think about whether they should be bots or not. (Note to self: "Bomberman" style mines might be neat, too.) |
Geraldine seems to be a cute and very clever little girl.
What do you think about a folder called "Children's Corner"?
Her levels are just innocent - I think this should be honnored and kids would need to have their own homepage and stuff and so on.
I love the way Geraldine tries to connect to who- or whatever.
She seems to be a smart girl!
Hey guys, will you be capable to handle this kind of not expected variation of the game?
?
|
Kirima: I want everyone to be able to feel comfortable playing this game, and part of that is making levels. I hope that others can make it a welcome environment for new players, too, even if their levels are pretty unsophisticated.
As for making a "children's corner", I think it is a good idea, except for the fact that it will be pretty hard to determine who is actually a child. It could be quite insulting to have one's levels sent to the children's corner if not actually a child!
I tried this kind of level segregation already with the "Sophomoric" category. But it's too hard, and too mean, to put levels in there unless they were made by people who have clearly stopped playing the game.
I welcome suggestions, or comments about whether this is even really a problem. It can be mildly fun to speedrun these "beginner" levels, anyway... |
| And look on the bright side, at least they're not *teleporter levels*. |
| Hah. I have thought of trying to automatically detect certain kinds of common lame levels and warn the user upon uploading... but fortunately there hasn't been much trouble with that recently. |
| Man that would be awesome: WARNING: THE LEVEL YOU ARE UPLOADING IS PROBABLY LAME |
| Or done by Kirima |
| On the contrary, I'm looking forward to more levels from you, K! |
| I adore this game! One thing though...is there anyway to get a hint on a level? I am obviously having a blonde moment and am terribly stuck. :/ |
| Jenna: Some of the levels are really hard! I think there are only one or two people who have beaten every level. (And definitely not me...) You might be able to get a hint by looking at the comments for the level on the site and turning on spoilers. But that's only if someone has gone to the trouble of spoiling it, which we tend not to do. Also, you could ask for a hint here or there. If the level's rated at a difficulty of about 7 or above, then I assure you it's not a blonde moment... |
| About "mines", just thought of this: should they be able to be walked over, as if they were rough? Or should they be able to be pushed like bombs? Or should there be two kinds? I know you would rather not have two kinds, so pushable is probably preferable, but it would be cool to have immobile mines that you can walk on to increase the danger potential of chain reactions... |
| If they're bots, they definitely can't be walked on. I think there may be botlimit issues if they are bots, though. Hmm, so many choices... |
| I don't know if you can remedy this, but it's starting to take an awfully long time to recover solutions with ctrl-0. Could you at least put in a progress bar so I don't think I've crashed? |
It works best if you move the target level to its own folder first, since it tries to solve every level in the current folder when you ctrl-0, which means number_of_solutions * number_of_levels.
I'll add the progres meter to the wishlist; it shouldn't be too hard. |
| And how about a "cancel" option while you're at it... |
I love coming home after a long day at work to play Escape! I try to solve one level each day.
Thank you all.
Questions:
1) My son loves playing the levels that have robots in them. I can't stand it. Could you add a robot sorting level to your sort options? This would help me to escape the robots completely.
2) Are there clues for these levels somewhere? I need help (the tutorials aren't enough for my thick head) in solving a few levels are like so much: square peg, upon further reflection, scuba diving III.
Thanks again |
| Never mind my post, I just read Jenna's blonde question. But if you still want to give me a hint, I would certainly appreciated it. |
| OLBTS: if you sort by date, which is the default, then the levels towards the end of the list will not have robots, since they were only introduced recently. But you'll be missing some good levels made since then... |
Hey,
I have a problem. I have had escape for awile and it is the latest version, but for some unknown reason I cannot download any new levels. When I try I get this message " This version cannot accept any collections. You should try upgrading, though a new version might not be available yet for your platform."
My os is xp home edition. My firewall is setup to allow escape to get new levels and it used to do just that. Nothing has changed that should make this happen. Please help me.
Thanks |
| The only reason this should happen is if you don't have the newest version--if you press 3 from the main menu, does it upgrade? Or does it say that you have the newest version already? If the latter, then there must be some bug, which we should try to figure out. |
"You're Fucked", "Piss-Taker"...
I'm NOT amused!
The great game and concept "Escape" does not deserve this!!! |
| Tom, I guess it's time to pass to a more "serious" version of the game -> to SELL it officially! BEFORE these kinds of abusions will take over and destroy your work and intentions. I feel very sorry about these "piss-fucking" titles and comments, you do NOT deserve this kind of judging - it's just not fair at all. |
Don't worry, I'll take care of it. =)
But I don't think selling would help much... |
Ok, you're definatly right and selling might not be the solution - but WHAT could solve these problems? The game has started to loose itself, it has become more and more obsolete, it just seems to turn out pretty shitty and pissed off... That's NOT what you wanted, isn't it?
As you know: I adore your game, and what's happening just makes me feel kind of sad. And I'm certainly not the only one who does not at all agree with what's going on, am I?
You'll take care of it. I'm positive that you will! You'll just have to. xxx
|
Well, dealing with the swears is not a big problem, I just need to put some controls into the game to not accept levels with inappropriate titles, and have a policy of deleting levels that are inappropriate. I was sort of hoping that this would never be something I'd need to worry about, but that's just a consequence of attracting a wider audience.
I think the main reason escape seems stagnant right now is just that I've been busy with other projects (like my thesis proposal) so I haven't been able to give it the love it deserves since the summer. |
Hey,
On another subject, I just posted A level called "Choose" and forgot to fix the dimensions of it. So it looks kind of stupid, but I can't fix it now. In other words, please don't make remarks about it's useless space, OK!
P.S I think swears in titles should be stopped somehow, it's just not funny! |
| Zell, you just have to click on the 'resize' button in the editor (or press 'z'). |
| Is there any chance of having some solutions? I have spent hours on some of the levels and eventially given up. Perhaps there could be an option to view a solution after youv'e had twenty attempts or something. |
| Mary: Well, I understand the desire (I have often been tempted to look at solutions by pouring hours into levels..) but I don't want to allow people to see solutions, because it just spoils the game too much. (And there are plenty of others to try...) Why not ask for hints on the specific levels you're troubled by? |
One part of the concept of Escape is it's wide audience, isn't it? And it should survive, with or without you giving it the love it deserves. We, the audience, would not appreciate these "some controls" - and I really hope they won't ever be necessary.
|
Well, I am open to suggestions!
All I mean by controls is just preventing certain obviously bad taste titles and comments from being posted and reminding the user that people of all ages play this game. |
Swear-word filtering seems a pretty harmless addition, though it becomes a slippery slope; are you going to filter non-english swear words to? Swear words with spaces, or spelled oddly? Alternatively you could have a client-side filter, on by default, that users can disable should they choose.
Also, at the same time, length limiting of titles could be put in place, if it's not there already; I recall seeing some examples of this abuse in the past.
On a completely different note, should there be some sort of check at the end of a move to see if the the player has reached a stale-mate? It's possible in the midst of a level to have the player get stuck with no legal moves left, even if there's a ticking bomb adjacent to the player! (Players would probably use undo or restart at that point, so perhaps this isn't really needed.) |
Stephan, I agree. That's why the focus is on detection and polite warning, rather than on setting "rules." In particular, I don't want to give the impression that if something passes the filter, it is necessarily acceptable to the community. Still, deep in my heart I believe that most people are reasonable.
The length limiting should not be a problem now.. there was once an issue with it screwing up the web page, but now it should truncate long titles when displaying them. If you notice issues with this, please let me know.
As for detecting stalemate: It would be pretty easy to do, but I don't think it's necessary. It's pretty easy for the player to detect that none of the four moves are possible, and restart in that situation. (The idea of 'zugzwang', where one doesn't really want to move but is forced to, is VERY much a part of the game.) There should be a "restart" button in the menu, though, for those who didn't guess that enter does this. I don't know why I didn't think of that. |
Hey this new inappropriate guard is messed up. Every title I enter is inappropriate apparently. Why is this!
The titles I tried to use would not be considered inappropriate in the least, please fix it. |
Hey this new inappropriate guard is messed up. Every title I enter is inappropriate apparently. Why is this!
The titles I tried to use would not be considered inappropriate in the least, please fix it. |
| Now I've gone and clicked "post comment" twice. |
| Uhh, thanks. That was dumb! I had it backwards, so that only levels whose titles included every swear word would be accepted. ;) It's fixed now. |
| Thanks |
| No, thank YOU! ;) |
| Oh man that would have been so awesome... |
| Do you have some kind of standard swear-word dictionary or something for that purpose? |
No, but I sure know 'em! At least the FCC regulated ones from my radio days...
One complication is that I can't include things like "ass" or "pee" since they appear in so many legitimate words. |
| A bug unlikely to affect anyone: In the editor, with a level with a height or width less than 3, clicking and running 'random' will crash the program. |
Humm, yeah. Fixed!
I definitely recommend saving one's work before running 'random' of any kind, since I was not very careful about that code. Some day it needs an overhaul... |
| General size-problem: as ")" and "(" only exist like this on my (or other?) european keyboard (no "half rectangle version" available), there is no way to see what's going on while playing levels that are bigger than the window. Of course I could load a level in editor to be able to see what's going on, but that's a spoiler and it's certainly not reasonable to play levels that way. Is there any other possibility to zoom? |
The international keyboard thing is an issue I haven't really addressed yet. I guess the right thing to do would be to add an options screen where keyboard bindings can be set, since I don't have any way to anticipate the range of keys that will be available on non-US keyboards.
Do you have curly braces { and }? |
| No, unfortunately not! Of course I DO have all that stuff -> [ ] { } this is the proof! But I have to press alt-5 to find [ , and doing so while playing "Somewhat Faire" by Feanor for example would not help, nothing at all happens. But of coures I don't even know WHAT would happen if I had a "normal" [ ... ;-) |
| Humm. Well, I will think of something for the next version, and then plan on having a key remapper in the options at some point. |
Yes!
:-) |
Crash! My file has gone:
mm.esp **ERROR** (-1)
"Default" or "New Player" works normally.
Please help! I would not want to loose all the solved levels :-(
|
| Import / Recover Player: I found the file mm.esp, but I have no idea how to copy it into the escape directory! What and where is the escape directory? I guess this is a really stupid question... |
The escape directory is probably where you found the mm.esp file. This probably means that the file is corrupt. Make a copy of it, and if the thing below doesn't help, then I can probably fix the file for you manually.
Escape keeps backups of your player file automatically. There should be a bunch of files named like "mm.esp~2905" in that same directory. Copy the one with the highest number to something like "mm2.esp" and escape should find it the next time you start. |
| There are files like "mm.esp~2905", but no file like "mm2.esp". These icons don't look like folders, but like "empty pages". I can't copy any empty page into another empty page. BTW I don't get it, I don't understand, kannit verstaan, please tell me how to zugzwang, I bet there must be one simple thing to do? Is a directory just a normal folder? (MacOSX 10.3) |
| Oh, I didn't realize you're using macos. Well, the procedure is the same, and you don't need to worry about folders. Go to where those mm.esp~2905 files are. Pick the one with the highest number. Rename it to "mm2.esp," and you're done! (I was suggesting that instead of renaming, you make a copy, just in case something goes wrong. Either way should work, but you might also want to copy that new mm2.esp file somewhere just for backups.) Dig it? |
I KNEW there was this one simple thing to do! :-))) Now there is "mm.esp **ERROR** (-1)", AND "mm(550)", and "Default (28)" - the 3 of us THANK YOU!
And I'm gladbackupgot it. I han's checkt. |
| Great! Can you e-mail me the mm.esp file? I'd like to see if I can figure out how it got damaged. |
| Ok |
| Thanks! |
| And she sent me an ice fish spine! |
| That's just not true AT ALL. I've sent him some kind of a puzzle, just because I know that he loves this kind of things - it's obvious that Tom 7 likes puzzles, isn't it. |
| Tom likes puzzles! |
This is perhaps a silly question, but what does the key by a level mean, after it's been uploaded?
It's interesting to be playing Escape again after all these years. I submitted levels ages ago and completely forgot about the game. I was amazed to see they're still in the current version. |
Darren: The key means that you were the uploader, so you can (for instance) delete the level.
Thanks for finding your way back! All of the levels that I have are in the game, even the really really old ones. |
Another crash...! |
Drat! Well, maybe I will take a look at this tonight.
Can you tell me what happened the last time before it crashed? |
First i would like to apologise for the unsuitable language used in the titles of two of my levels. I created these levels with the titles to be aimed at a friend of mine, before i was aware that you can upload your own levels for public use. By that time i had simply forgot to change the offensive titles, so please do not judge my levels for that error. thanks.
P.S. No disrespect intended towards the creator of this game, Its a game I discovered while looking to download Chips Challenge...And this is much better! Good Luck with this! |
Oh and this might sound silly, but on levels i,ve seen one switch change several things at once...i did not know that was possible...HOW do you do that?
|
Hardcore raver: Why not upload versions of the levels with new titles? I can delete the old ones.
It's not possible for one switch to change several things directly. When people do this, most of the time it's by using bots. |
I'm sorry, I don't know! I bet I'd rather start to prepare family christmas eve instead of playing escape and that's why this happens to me...
I guess I'm just too unorganized and this is why the system crashes! I jump around from level to level and suddenly I feel like editing a real challenging level - which does not work at all 'cause I'm just not clever enough to figure out an interesting level - so I get kind of frustrated and leave the editor and turn the game and computer off. And boom, the system crashes...
I bet this does not really help you to find out where the problem could be... All I know is that I might have been in "editor" before I turned off the computer. It feels as if it could be some kind of a "saving" problem? Grrrrr... I can't explain what I'd want to explain, I'm just not into computer language and all this stuff! And not into english as well.
BTW: It's just wonderful that even people like I am have a little chance to find a speedrun once in a while! :-) And to edit levels! :-)
|
Well, no amount of disorganized playing should cause it to corrupt your player! So I had better fix it!
I'm going to take a look at the file you sent me now and see what's wrong with it, at least. |
| Well, I see what's wrong with the file. It is the same problem that Stephan had when his player file got corrupted. I'll try to track down how this could happen, but any more info would be appreciated! |
Don't worry, don't hurry! I'm not very organized, but it's not important and doesn't matter. |
I have no idea what might have happend to Stephan?
And I've already told you all I know about what I've done? |
| Well the important thing is that there's a bug and it broke both your and Stephan's files.. so that makes it a high priority for me! |
| Ah right i c wat u mean...Thanks 4 that Tom |
Oops, I did'n realize this! But I can't give you any further infos, so good luck for fixing the bug! |
First, thanks for saving my sanity. I get to play at work while having lunch. It's nice to escape. (pun intended)
On my home computer (Apple G4, OS 10.3.9) I am unable to properly resize the game window to see more of the game. What I get is a white box where escape should be. On my work computer (Wintel? OS XP) I do not have this problem. Have you or anyone else encountered this problem? This has happened fro OS 10.1 to present. |
I didn't even know it should be possible to resize the window! OSX 10.3.9 as well - the window stays always (game size) 24/15. I'm used to walk around more or less blind to find out what's going on ;-) |
| Actually, yeah I'm in the same boat. If I resize the window, the black border becomes larger to fill in the extra area but the actual puzzle window stays the same size... |
| Are there any hints on how to solve tutorial 21? I figured out the top line of bombs with the lazer thing, but am totally not understanding this tutorial from then on. |
I can't delete the " **ERROR** (-1) " players! I DID delete them, but now there are showing up again??? To avoid crashes, I don't got back to editor, but I'm doing backups just in case. |
I deleted the player ctrl-d, but the broken files are still there, I guess that's why players wouldn't disappear. But ctrl-d should work anyway - I think noone noticed because noone ever deletes players! ;-) |
| A zoom would be a great idea as I have to keep changing my monitor resolution to view some of the levels. If I keep it on 800 x 600 it works well but i can only see part of the game but on high resolution (1280 x 1024) I can see everything but everything slows down to an unacceptable degree. |
Resizing: Hmm. If it's something that happens on the mac but not on windows, it's probably an issue with the SDL (the graphics toolkit I'm using). That's annoying since it's hard for me to fix. I seem to remember this working once upon a time though. Is that right? I'll check next time I'm on a mac and see what I can find.
Kirima: Yeah, delete and import don't work, now that I've changed the way player files are stored. But if you just move the player files out of the directory manually (when the game isn't running) then they won't show up any more. I'll fix this soon.
Mary: Try the brackets ] and [ to zoom in and out. Also ctrl-arrows will scroll around a little. Animation is turned off when you're zoomed out, though.
Anonymous: Sure. The panel at the bottom can be pushed down by a bomb, and then the bots start walking towards you. You want them to get to the button and push it, so that it opens the blue. But the bomb that's there has a short fuse so it blows up before they get there. Soooo.... |
| I fixed delete for the next version, since that is easy. |
| The square brackets [] are great. I didn't realise that you could do that. |
| There are lots of secrets, Mary. ;) I plan to make them more obvious... |
A ctrl-arrow secret! And it even seems to work in spite of OSX... ;-) |
| I don't think resize has ever worked for me. I actually never knew you were supposed to be able to. I always just use the brackets... |
| Max, didn't you make "What's going on over there?" by stretching your window though? |
Nope, everything I've done has been with the brackets. Annoying, huh?
In fact that one was never meant to be stretched anyway. And it doesn't even have any panels. Much harder ones have been "Wave", "Collapses" etc... |
Sorry man!
Also, arrow keys in the editor now allow you to pan around, even to place panels. So it should be much easier (but still just as potentially undesirable) to have those long-distance panel effects now. |
| No worries, I've always been able to pan around, just no stretching. |
Hardcoreharrrrdcorrre is really hardcore )-: |
| Odd: the number that shows by your player file seems to be affected by levels bookmarked. That is, any level that you have placed a bookmark in, but have not completed will still be added to your level count. |
| An idea for a new gizmo: a broom to "smooth out" the rough places. You'd have to work hard to get a broom, but it could make for some interesting challenges. |
| You can just use panels for that, though... |
European keyboards:
I found out that I can switch to whatever keyboard you could imagine! (OSX) Even Japanese or Russian or Arabian.
:-)
So I swich to US-keyboard and brackets would work perfectly.
Great!
Such an easy solution...
|
| Cool! Well, I still think being able to configure keys is an important thing to have, because if I had to switch my keyboard layout to play games I'd be pretty miffed. ;) But I am glad that you can at least get by until I implement that. |
I don't care, I'm used to swich to the French keyboard, I do this very often and should have thought about this possibility much earlier already. BTW it's fun to zoom in and out! |
| The "switch-the-keyboard" method works also for me (italian keyboard switched to US). Oddly enough, it does not work if I switch to US extended (even though brackets are mapped to the same keys)... |
The "switch-method" works perfectly, I can start the escape programm "within" US-keyboard and switch again to my normal keyboard and work as usual - whenever I go back to "ESCAPE", the US-keyboard will still be working within the game.
Got it? Ugh. My English is shitty, please forgive me! |
I don't know how to download the "speedruns". I'm looking for the solution to "Blue Moon (v2)". Anyone?
Thanks |
| You can't see the speedruns until you've solved the level. But then, you can press ctrl-m with the level selected, and then ctrl-d to download the solutions on the server. |
people help me please???? how can i solve level TUTORIAL 21 -BOMBS !!!???
Tom 7 please help me!!!!your game is cool, man. |
| boss: I made a comment on this page on December 5th that should give a hint. |
| What does "cook" mean? |
| It comes from chess puzzle lingo. A puzzle is "cooked" if it has more solutions than intended. One who finds such an unintended solution "cooks" the level in doing so. Does that make sense? |
| HELP I need some kind of hint for block shortage. I've been working on it forever and I'm just not getting it. Any help would be appreciated. |
| I haven't tried it yet, so I don't have any advice... |
Thanks for keeping this wonderfull game working and improving!
I don't know if is a bug, but although I have "ask for rate" checked on my preferences, when I bookmark a level and then I find the solution, Escape doesn't ask for the rate.
If the level doesn't have a bookmark it works ok!
Thanks again |
| OCTweak: Yes, that's a bug--it's high on my list, along with a bunch of other weird things about bookmarks. Unfortunately I haven't had much time to hack on Escape recently, but I will get to it! =) |
| can someone help me with hugbot2 |
| will there be a version update. It difficult to play some of the puzzles because the window can't be resized. |
Yup, yenko, I am going to look into that problem on OSX (actually I have easier access to OSX now, so that may speed things along) when I get a chance. Unfortunately, it is probably an SDL problem, which I can only fix by upgrading to newer versions of the SDL and hoping that they have fixed it.
In the meantime, you should be able to play most levels by zooming out (using the square brackets ] and [) or scrolling using ctrl-arrows. |
Please consider altering the sort by unsolved first (ctrl-v) to also sort the solved levels by the date it was solve. Example, yesterday I solved a level and I don't remember it's name. To find it, I will have to go through all solved levels, 720 in my case. Thanks
|
| Well, it's currently sorted by solution length, which could be a useful thing. I think the right thing would be to have another sort by recent activity, so that recently played (which would include solved, obviously) levels could be seen near the top. That might make a good default, in fact. |
It's nice to realize that crtl-v sorts by solution length, thank you for this hint ;-)
BTW: Thank you again for this really wonderful game, I just love it! |
| By the way, I fixed the problem on OSX with resizing the window! Unfortunately, the sourceforge compile farm servers are down for OSX, and they have been for like a month. As soon as they are fixed I will release a version with the fix (and a bunch of small stuff I have been working on over the last few months). |
I'm looking forward to be able to resize the window, thank you Tom :-)
Did you notice that only a few new levels "use" bombs? |
Yeah Tom!
|
K: Yeah, though the majority of the new levels have been sort of neophyte stuff. Most of the old standbys have been silent for a while. Speaking of which.. can we expect any levels from you anytime soon? =)
Y: Thanks for the encouragement, but don't hold your breath; sourceforge may take a while. The sad thing is that I can totally compile Escape on OS X machines that I have access to, but they are newer versions, so if I do, then the version of Escape that I build won't work on early versions of OS X. Urgh. |
>>the majority of the new levels have been sort of neophyte stuff<<
Yeah, like Changing Positions.
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Neophyte! What a sophisticated word...
I guess I owe you much more than one level!
BTW, I did solve my 666th level today, hy Doom! :-)))
I'd love to edit levels, but you know about my Mac-crash. I do backups once a week, but I kind of don't want to "use" the editor? Would it be safe?
Changing Positions is, in my opinion, a "non-neophyte" level, Lukas did a good work, it's nicely done and I did enjoy it a lot.
|
And noname, thank you for you're re-introduction of bombs, even if I'm not really into bombs ;-) |
Yeah, I thought changing positions was an easy but stylish level. I'm thinking of some others, though I'm not trying to put anyone down, because lots of players start out that way.
I think the editor should be safe. If you make a copy of your "mm.esp" file then you can always restore that. But lots of people edit on the mac, this slippery bug notwithstanding. Another thing you could do is just make a separate installation of Escape that you only use for editing. I think you can do this by just making a copy of the Escape "icon." |
Ok |
| I really like escape, thanks for making it. For addition features you may want to consider switch pannles. They would act similar to the buttons, but the state of the target pannle would remain the same until the switch was triggered again, or another switch/button triggered the same target. For example: the player steps on a switch causing a floor pannle to become a block, the player steps off of the switch and the block remains. If the switch were triggered again the block would once again become a floor tile. Similar to a flip-flop toggle gate in electroncis. I also think that it would be very interesting to be able to setup buttons like AND and OR gates. |
| It's possible to make such one-way panels already by putting two panels next to one another: one that targets the adjacent panel, which itself targets the intended destination. (They only work when walking over the pair of panels in one direction, however.) You can also do it with gold blocks or spheres. Because panels are so complicated and very tricky to implement, I want to avoid adding new things like them. One thing that I have been planning for some time, however, are flip-flop panels that are activated by pulses from buttons/wires. This would be pretty easy to implement and would probably more or less achieve what you want. |
| New feature sugestion - a kind of bomb that could be pushed into a transport! |
you should buttons that can have more than 1 target
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| Unfortunately it's not possible for me to make tiles with more than one destination, and I don't foresee that changing basically ever. But, when I get around to making wire-activated panels, you will be able to achieve this effect (and you can kind of already do it with bots). |
you should buttons that can have more than 1 target
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| i beat 2 of the impossible levels so there not impossible anymore i guess lol |
| Hey Erik, would you please stop posting nonsense here? I keep deleting it, so there's really no point in doing it. But thanks for playing Escape and thanks for your suggestions... |
| ??? |
| i was just saying i beat sme levels??? |
| ooooh you mean the farty thing my freind was screwin around with the computer |
sorry about that
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| It's okay. =) |
| A while back there was some noise about a couple of levels having names that were not, ah, G-rated. I'd like to share this game with some kids I know, but I don't want to go through their amazement/giggles/etc. at the level names. Any way to change those few? |
| I actually just renamed them yesterday. Just stay out of (like don't subscribe to) the "deleted levels" collection and you won't see them. Also, I have rudimentary controls in place to keep swear words out of the names of newly uploaded levels now. |
why dont you just totaly delete the levels?
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| I don't like to totally delete levels because then we lose the comments and speedruns, etc. |
Hi Tom. Today after editing a new level and saving it, I closed Escape. Now I open escape and get ERROR (-1) next to the name of my esp file.
I saved the corrupted file and replace it with the last automatic backup I found. Do you want the corrupted file to take a look ? (My OS is windows XP) |
| I think this is the same problem that Kirima and Stephan had, but I'd love to take a look at the corrupted file to reassure myself. (you can e-mail it to [tom7 at cs cmu edu].) It sounds like this is definitely a problem with the editor. It's high on my list to figure it out and fix it, because nobody likes to have his savegame corrupted!! Thanks and sorry for the bug... |
| Corrupted file sent. |
Funny story:
A while back I was Googling for clip art of rockets and robots, and some very funny cute robots turned up on about.com which I saved and used for a few of my desktop icons and stuff. Several weeks later, I was browsing around fontface, and found a really cool font I downloaded. I linked to the creator's page, and lo and behold, the same person with the bots! Which is a long way to say I love your stuff, man.
And now this game! I've finished nearly all the tutorials, but the bombs level is kicking my ass. I read your previous hint, but no dice. Maybe I'll just have to sleep on it like I did for the level just before...
Anyway, thanks for the awesome game! |
tee hee, thanks! I'm glad you like the robots and the rockets.
The bomb tutorial seems to be one of the trickier ones, for whatever reason...
[spoiler!] Clearer hint: The fuse on the bomb at the bottom right is too short for the bots to make it all the way over and push the button. So you need to find a way to get a bomb with a longer fuse in there. |
> Tom: Most of the old standbys have been silent for a while. Speaking of which.. can we expect any levels from you anytime soon? =)
I've been making rooms in another puzzle game lately. However, I've gotten that project almost finished, so I had some time for Escape editing today. However, I got this message when trying to upload a level:
"upload failed: fail (bug) bad lev"
Any ideas what might be causing this? The level has a valid solution and I've got the latest version of the game. |
| This is caused by my computer running out of disk space. (Urgh..) I'm cleaning up log files now and you should be able to upload in 30 minutes or so. |
Congretulations :-)
Well done! :-) |
In Windows, while playing a "big" game in Escape, if I press CTRL-left or CTRL-right I can roll the screen, but CTRL-up or CTRL-down does nothing.
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| Hmmm, this is surprising because they all work the same way. You can move the player up and down, right? One possibility is that you can't scroll because the player is too near to the edge of the screen... |
| You are wright. It does work if the player is at least 4 spaces from the edge. I thought CTRL-arrow would work idependent of the player's position.8( |
| It does in the editor, but not when playing the game. This was deliberate, though, to keep the player from getting 'lost' outside the scroll window. Probably the best thing is to just zoom out with ] and [. |
Tom, I found a way where you can reproduce the ERROR (-1) next to the name of the player
1) Backup your player.esp file
2) Open Escape
3) Open your player (I did not test with default.esp)
4) Edit a level (You can edit something or not doesn't make any diference)
5) If you did edit, save the new level
5) press "P" (play)
6) press "B" (bookmark)
7) bookmark current state
8) exit from editor
9) exit from escape
10) Open Escape and the error appears
I hope this help you find the bug.
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| Awesome! If this works each time I can definitely fix it. Thanks a lot. |
| I fixed it. I'll put out a release tonight for Windows and Linux (but sourceforge's OSX compile farm is still down, sigh...) |
Is there a way to delete bookmarks, before finishing the level?
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| No, but that's high on my list. What I plan to do is to integrate the solution playback mode with the playing mode, so that the bookmark menu basically becomes the solution manager. This will let you do things like playback someone else's speedrun part way, then start changing it halfway through. |
How hard is it to compile on OSX. The box I have has the default compiler that comes with OSX, and maybe we can download the needed files to compile it ourselves.
Are there instructions available? |
Great game. Even my three year old son loves to play it. I have a question and possibly a suggestion.
First I cannot get it to work through my proxy server (wingate pro running on NT4). I tried the alt connect and added port 8888 to my proxy server. Any tricks I should know??
Second Perhaps the levels could be grouped into seperate directories to decrease load times. Like putting solved levels into a seperate directory or mayby by difficulty.
I am going to see if I can do it manually.
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| uenko: it's not hard to compile yourself on OSX. Actually, it should be a matter of checking the source code out via CVS and then just typing 'make framelinks' and then 'make zip'. But, I'd rather not have to resort to that... it's unfortunately just an unforseen shame that sourceforge's OSX machines have been down for months. If it continues I'll try to find access to another mac with an early version of OSX on it. |
RC: Escape doesn't currently support web proxies. I should get around to adding support, I guess, but I haven't yet since I thought most people just use NAT these days.
Yes, "triage" is getting huge (and kinda slow) so the plan is to separate levels into directories. This won't actually speed things up right now, because the game searches through all subdirectories. But that information could probably be loaded 'on demand'. |
| Is there documentation on how to download the files directly from sourceforge? |
You can do it like this:
cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/tom7misc login
(empty password)
cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/tom7misc co escapex
Then read the file HACKING for instructions on how to compile.
After you compile, you probably want to run "make zip" which will put an Escape.app in your /tmp directory, and also make a zip of that (just like what you get from the webpage) in the source directory.
Good luck! |
Hey, it worked.
It's nice to have the updates, especially that resize windows thing. |
| I'm glad! Whenever you want to synchronize with the current source code, just do "cvs up -d" in the escapex dir. I can't guarantee that the code will always be in good shape, though, since I'm basically the only developer so I just check in my changes whenever I move between computers. |
| Tom, why some levels has "solved 0/0" in the level browser, but there is already speedrun for it, like in level 1037? |
| The solved number, like the ratings, only updates along with the entire collection (like when someone uploads a new level). |
Escape does not auto-detect a speedrun after a level is solved!
It's necessary to ctrl-m and than upload.
|
| It should detect when you rate. But if I recall correctly, it won't prompt you to rate if you have bookmarks for the level. I really need to clean up bookmarks, urgh... |
| umm uhh are you supposed to be able to switch layers while playing someone elses level? cause you can |
| Yeah, several of the developer keys work while you're playing, too. That's intentional. |
I moved the sub directories of triage up to the root as well as half of the triage levels to another dir in the root. Initial load time was the about the same (of course) but once you are into each of the "halves" load time improved considerably.
Is there anyway to find the already solved levels or is that encrypted in the "player".esp file.
Also can solutions for all solved levels be downloaded as a batch?
|
RC: That's what I'd expect. Well, soon I want to split them up. Does anybody have any suggestions for a good way to organize it? By year?
The player file isn't encrypted.. the solutions section consists of a series of level hashes followed by the solutions. You can get the hash for a level by looking at the filename of the level image on the website, or by running md5sum (or a similar utility) on the level file, or a few other ways. It would be a pain to decode the solutions though, which are compressed to save space (look at the source code if you're really interested...). Of course, the game shows you the levels that are solved by putting check marks next to them. What is it you're trying to do?
There's no way to download all solutions as a batch. Maybe I can add that in a future version, as a sort of "full synchronization." |
| Is there a hint board or forum for Escape? I started one on www.the-geek.net, but it doesn't have any traction. |
| Well, the escape website allows people to exchange comments on levels, and there is this feedback thread--that's pretty much it. I doubt there are enough players to support a hint board right now, but you're welcome to try. =) |
Thanks for the info. I wanted to easily put solved levels into a seperate dir. I think sorting by finished levels would be good. Although it would probably be tricky to do after levels are loaded - but could you sort out finished levels each time the game starts?
Do your levels get cooked too?
|
You can press ctrl-v to show the unsolved levels first, since it sorts by the length of the solution.
Yeah, everybody's levels get cooked. It's part of the fun of making and playing puzzles, I think! |
Sorry to keep bothering you. Yes, I said it wrong. I meant to suggest that solved levels could be automatically put into the root directory upon game start or exit as a way to split up the levels. As far as other ways to split them. I like date, size and author.
Also does that old dos version still work?
|
It's no problem!
What is it about sorting that doesn't work well? I'm thinking about redesigning the level browser stuff (probably to base it on tags and filters rather than directories), so comments are welcome...
The DOS version works as it did in 1998 or so. It has bugs, and isn't compatible with the new version. There's pretty much no reason to play it, unless you want to chuckle at its primitive graphics and interface. ;) |
I think it'd be cool if sorting automatically created (or pretended to create) sub-directories. Like, you'd press Ctrl-D and there'd be directories for 0-1, 1-2, 2-3, etc.
BTW, I withdraw my suggestion from a long long time ago about making the sort stable. I downloaded the source and did it myself a while back, and it wasn't nearly as useful as I thought it'd be.
P.S. thanks for the D button! |
| That's kind of what I have in mind--doing ad hoc filtering/sorting instead of trying to organize into directories. But the filters would be browsable like the directories are. This won't help much with the performance issue, though. |
| Silly question: once I've cooked a level, is it "better" to comunicate the cook, or would you prefere a modification? The mod would not give the clues away, but the author could feel a little bad about it. How do you would want us to handle this? |
In my opinion a mod is almost always better. When I make a level I love to see it cooked in a clever way, and I love being forced to figure it out. I'd say to make a mod unless:
1. your mod gives away the solution to the original
2. the level or the mod is not really that good
3. you don't feel like it
|
Ok!
But: without knowing the original solution, how could we know if it's a cook or the intended way to solve the level... I know, this question is even more silly... I guess I've got it, I know what you've been trying to tell me.
I'm looking forward to "d" (-; |
| And: only AFTER rating we can see the original solution. I did not know that I had been cooking some levels before uploading the speedrun... And I think once I've solved a level, I should rate it right away, and not wait and wait until others would do the first ratings. Even if my first rating could and would not be appropriate at all. |
Well, before you assume you've cooked it, you should download the original solution from the solution manager (ctrl-m, ctrl-d) and compare!
I'll be able to post a new OSX version immediately once SF.net gets its act together... |
Ok, I guess I'll be able to handle it - but still, cooking speedruns will cook the level, with or without indicating the cool manually.
It's just a pity that RC moved his level to the graveyard after I had cooked it! 'cause the level was really nice! |
| I did upload a mod of John's level - and his original level just disappeard from my triage folder... I guess I had done something wrong... I didn't edit and upload it from my escape-editing-copy-folder, but from my original escape-game-playing-folder. Ugh. John, I did not want to loose your level, but it has gone! |
| Sorry, false alarm, I've found the level, it's still there, somehow it reappeard. |
| Not RC, but daedalus moved his level to the graveyard. Sorry. Time to get some sleep... |
| Well, you can always change your rating, or cancel rating and then rate after you've looked at the original solution. But you're right, maybe it makes sense to default to showing people the original solution before rating. |
| I do have a copyright-problem! |
| What copyright problem? =) |
| The game crashes whenever I try to get new levels on triage/graveyard. What should I do? |
| Well, I'd like to fix the bug. How does it crash? What operating system are you running on? Does it also happen if you install a fresh copy of the game? (If not, I might ask you to send me a zipped up version of your installation.) |
| It crashes when I click the screen on get new levels. I use windows XP home edition. I don't know if it will do that. |
Can you do two things for me? If so I can probably fix the bug.
1. make a zip of your entire Escape directory and send it to me? My e-mail address is (twm at andrew.cmu.edu).
2. install a new copy of Escape in a different directory and see if it still crashes when you update? Does it crash if you use the keyboard (press 4) to get levels? |
| How do I do that? |
Well, to install a new version, just download the installer from the website and install like you did the first time, just picking a different folder.
To zip up the escape directory, you can right click on the directory in explorer, choose "Send to.." and then say "compressed folder" (I think that works). Or you can use a third party zipping tool like winzip or 7zip. You can then attach that ZIP file to an e-mail message, though that depends on your e-mail application.
Has anybody else ever had this problem? |
Tom, re-rating certain levels let me realize that I have no idea when I had solved them. Sorting levels by the date of the first solution could be interesting!?
The copyright-problem... (-; - original uploaded by X mod by Y via Z versus K... And most of us use at least 2 names? Doom's original mod by Kirima via Henri via mm? I found a level that indicates "pretty much everybody" as author, which is just funny.Is it possible to change the player's name? I guess it should be within the folder, but I think changing the author's name of a level would inplique another moving to the graveyard.When I started the game for the very first time, I just tiped "mm" as usual, all my people know who this is. But this is just a very "private" little indication of a name. We have to decide the name before having any idea that this name will or could appear as an official name. As you can easily guess: all my "name"-problems are secundary, not really important.
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| It might be interesting if bombs toggled 1/0 panels in the vicinity of the explosion. (Either that, or another type of time-delay 'logic bomb') Or perhaps bombs could be made to toggle up/down left/right blocks? |
kirima: Yeah, I agree, that would be another good way to sort levels. I think redoing the level selector will be the next major overhaul in the game.
It's nice to credit everyone involved in a level, and the space isn't really limited. I think the current system that people have worked out is pretty good.
I can change your name on the server if you want, but I have to do it manually. It's pretty easy. Let me know if you want me to!
stephan: True, but it is a bit late to change the semantics of bombs now! Brian has been asking for a tile that sends a "push" out in all four directions; maybe some kind of air bomb would be feasible. The next tile I have planned is wire-activated panels, and I don't want to even add that until I feel like bombs are pretty much worn out... |
This afternoon, on opening Escape I see:
daedelus.esp **ERROR** (-1)
and on clicking:
Couldn't read played daedelus.esp
These are the potentially disasterous things I have done recently:
I updated the deleted level file last week. I guess you're not supposed to...?
This morning I started playing with changing the text color of my levels.
I've never backed up my player; am I really screwed? |
Daedalus: Are you on OSX? If so, you unfortunately don't have the fix for this bug yet. The good news is that your data isn't lost. Search this page for "backup" and read those instructions; you can also edit the file yourself to fix it (you might want to make a copy somewhere first). To fix it, open daedalus.esp, find the line after "-- solutions" (it should start with an asterisk *. Delete that line and the ! line that comes after it. Then escape should start up just fine.
The thing that causes this is making bookmarks while playing a level from the editor. Just don't do that until I can release another version for OSX (sorry, the delay isn't my fault, urgh..). |
Ah yes, I am using OSX, and I did just make bookmarks in the level I was editing.
I followed the above instructions, and now things are back to normal. Thanks much. |
| I'm glad it worked, and sorry about the bug. It seems it has bit almost everyone by now! |
I tried to upload a speedrun to lev850 and got "Upload failed: fail (bug) bad solution". It seemed good to me. I have uploaded before. I could try another board or make a test board and try that. Any ideas. Escape200602240 WinNT4(old School)
In regards to the level browser, logical directories are the way to go I think as well as physically moving solved (or something) levels that would satisify both performance and functionality issues. It would also be nice if the level browser saved it's state. Which I am sure you already considered. Oh what the heck, while your at it, you might as well write a complete file manager that can sort files create new directories and "move" levels however one wants. That would make everybody happy. For me escape is already the best puzzle game I have ever played so the rest is just icing. |
| sorry about the duplicates. |
I got rid of the duplicates.
This happens when my computer runs out of disk space. I fixed it, so you should be able to upload now.
Thanks for the suggestions, and thanks for the compliment!! |
I'm sure this has already been thought of. But what about a Crumbling block or something that takes two (or more) touches or explosions to remove.
|
Dumb questions. If I upload a solution not as a speedrun is it considered a cook? If not Who or What determines a cook.
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| RC: It's subjective whether your alternate solution constitutes a cook. Generally one can tell from the original solution whether you did it in a substantially similar way, or whether you avoided important parts of the puzzles; if the latter, then it's a cook. It's definitely possible for there to be interesting alternate solutions that are not cooks; some really loose puzzles (like the gold and sphere-shoving puzzles) have many interesting solutions. If you mean the "cooked 3/12" kind of thing rating, that is determined when players rate levels after solving them, and check the 'cooked' box. |
| This has got to be the sweetest puzzle game EVER! |
| Thanks! =) |
Just some of my ramblings.
Perhaps another sorting option.
Sorting by number of moves (original)?
And perhaps another rating category.
the level of frustration created trying to solve it.
Just kidding.
Has anyone solved them all?
I finally got under 100 left.
|
You can already sort by the number of moves it took you to solve (ctrl-v) but I don't want to give away the original solution length for levels that haven't been solved yet, because that spoils some levels.
There have definitely been times in the past where somebody has had all of the levels in triage solved. I did for a while, as did Max and bpotetz who outlasted me. Maybe pieguy and Joshua Bone as well? Anyway, the task has become much harder since those days... good luck! |
Yeah, i have trouble updating, and getting new levels, it always locks up. Anyone have the same problem?
|
| It might appear to be locked up because your internet connection is slow or there are a lot of levels to download. I should add a progress indicator... |
| This is a great game my wife may not get a lot done for the next week, month ok maybe a year. |
| This is a great game my wife may not get a lot done for the next week, month ok maybe a year. |
this is the best classic game ever !
it reminds me the time i was playing chip's challenge :)
i have managed to cross compile for the Motorola Linux Phone (E680i/A780) althought the menu isn't showing correctly
since the phone is only running maximum of 320x240.....
but so far playable :) |
Great addicting game!
I'd like to know more about the meaning of ratings and the percentages (93% solved for instance)... |
I just discovered something very interesting. Escape performs much differently under different color depth settings. But not what one might expect. By performance I mean playing a level (with animations on). The perfromance difference is considerable. It is literally 3 times faster between 32 bit vs 16bit. Here are the settings in the order of performance.
1. 32bit("True Color" or 4294967296 colors)
2. 8 bit (256 colors)
3. 24bit("True Color" or 16777216 colors)
4. 16bit("High Color" or 65536 colors)
Very odd??
This might just be a pc specific issue (like video card/drivers os ect...). I will test this other machines as well and let you know what I find, if you are interested.
|
| It might be counterintuitive, but it's not really that unusual. Programs usually perform better in 32-bit color mode, the reason being that 32-bit computers are most efficient at manipulating 32-bit values. In fact, despite what the number of colors says, 32 bit graphics is usually the same as 24-bit with an extra eight bits tucked in and wasted, just to make each pixel the same as the word size of the machine. And actually, there's pretty much no reason for a modern computer to use anything other than 32-bit color, so I don't even really know why it's an option any more. |
| My mistake 32bit color is not more colors in RGB. And yes I see what you mean. I guess I did not this this all the way through. |
| Sorry, if that message sounded dismissive it wasn't at all intentional. =) I appreciate all bug reports! Thanks! |
Hey Tom!
I suck at Linux, so I was maybe wondering if you could tell me why I can't get Escpe to work on my box. Here is the message I get:
bash-3.00$ ./escape.exe: /usr/local/libexec/gcc-3.2.3/lib/libgcc_s.so.1: version `GCC_3.3' not found (required by /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.5)
I tried finding out what version of GCC I had, but it said I had a newer version than 3.3. (3.4.2) I'm on a facilitized machine though so maybe I cannot be helped. :( |
| Bummer. This is with the binary distribution, or are you trying to compile it yourself? Adam and I worked this out in a way so it is "supposed" to work on all systems. Urgh. I suck at linux too. Why is it so hard to make binary distributions of software for linux? |
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