1273. Tom 7 (h-66-167-47-187.phlapafg.dynamic.covad.net) – 30 Jan 2004 00:49:26 [ Eloquent Speech ]

OK, let's just say they cancel each other out, since my legs don't reach to CT. ;)

Anyway, I meant updates about me working on things other than LICS. Reading CNN doesn't count!

1272. Andrew (yale128036074100.student.yale.edu) – 30 Jan 2004 00:44:58 [ Eloquent Speech ]

Of course, I'm avoiding working on my own LICS submission by posting, so perhaps we both deserve good kicks.

1271. Andrew (yale128036074100.student.yale.edu) – 30 Jan 2004 00:44:22 [ Eloquent Speech ]

<i>If you see an update here, give me a good kick!</i>

1270. mike (h-66-167-47-187.phlapafg.dynamic.covad.net) – 29 Jan 2004 22:39:52 [ Eloquent Speech ]

it seems all the world leaders are eloquent.

1269. Tom 7 (h-66-167-47-187.phlapafg.dynamic.covad.net) – 27 Jan 2004 09:21:34 [ FLAMING TEXT ]

It's beautiful! Check out my lovely web page!!!

1268. You are not me...... (cache-dh01.proxy.aol.com) – 27 Jan 2004 02:56:50 [ FLAMING TEXT ]

Why would anyone want to put flaming text on their homepage? Disgusting!

1267. Tom 7 (h-66-167-47-187.phlapafg.dynamic.covad.net) – 24 Jan 2004 20:40:32 [ Is Supergreg the Guy from Queen? ]

Maybe that's true, but I don't even remember Buddy Lee.

1266. Jeff (yale128036076025.student.yale.edu) – 24 Jan 2004 19:59:53 [ Is Supergreg the Guy from Queen? ]

No, it's just that it would have been easy to miss the fact that it was supergreg that Buddy Lee was in a DJ battle with (or the redneck racer guy that he was in a race with, etc.).

1265. Tom 7 (h-66-167-47-187.phlapafg.dynamic.covad.net) – 24 Jan 2004 16:03:21 [ and Greek ]

I hear the difference but I doubt I'll be able to do it. Anyway, "de brown" is apparently much closer then "de broyn"! Thanks!

1264. Tuuur (kabel223012.mobiel.utwente.nl) – 24 Jan 2004 14:58:17 [ and Greek ]

I guess it's the same kind of thing as Hindi speaking people in India who hear "satation" or "istation" (depending where they live in India) when British people say "station".

1263. Andrew (yale128036074100.student.yale.edu) – 24 Jan 2004 13:25:31 [ and Greek ]

That totally sounds like "de-brown" to my American ears.

1262. Tuuur (supercow.kabel.utwente.nl) – 23 Jan 2004 17:44:23 [ and Greek ]

OK, tell you what: I put an mp3 on my site just so you can hear how I pronounce it!

Here it is:
http://arthur.kamst.com/mp3/de_bruijn.mp3

1261. Tom 7 (gs82.sp.cs.cmu.edu) – 23 Jan 2004 14:38:18 [ and Greek ]

Yikes, that's tough. OK, I'll try that on my students next week. ;)

I'll bet we sound like Canadians saying "abouyt" when we say "de Broyn"!

1260. Tuuur (supercow.kabel.utwente.nl) – 23 Jan 2004 13:06:53 [ and Greek ]

It's definitely not meant to sound as "de brown"... Dutch spell the sound "ow" as "ou". So dutch words like oud (old) and hout (wood) are pronounced somewhat like owd and howt.

The idea is something like this: after the sound "u" as in english "us" place a very very very short "ee" as in "tree". It has to be just a hint of an "ee", and then you got it, sort of.

1259. Tom 7 (gs82.sp.cs.cmu.edu) – 23 Jan 2004 12:45:43 [ and Greek ]

Tuur: From this I guess it should be rather like "de brown." My poor american ears hear 'gebrowk', at least from 8-bit 8khz .au files. If I leave out the j (as you say) then that suggests "brown". Is that close?

Andrew: Except he doesn't say "leenooks" any more (or so they say)...

1258. Andrew (yale128036074100.student.yale.edu) – 23 Jan 2004 12:16:25 [ and Greek ]

de Bruijn needs to set up a web page like Linux did, with something like "Hi, my name is de Bruijn and I pronounce my name `de Bruijn'".

1257. Tom 7 (gs82.sp.cs.cmu.edu) – 22 Jan 2004 10:29:23 [ Is Supergreg the Guy from Queen? ]

I never saw them either; they must have been pretty short run.

1256. Tuuur (gw-kamst.gw.utwente.nl) – 22 Jan 2004 08:19:02 [ Is Supergreg the Guy from Queen? ]

I didn't see those Supergreg commercials. Guess they weren't aired in Europe. Supergreg is da number one though!!!

1255. Tuuur (gw-kamst.gw.utwente.nl) – 22 Jan 2004 03:53:06 [ and Greek ]

Oh, and in pronounciation there is no difference at all between "de Bruin", "de Bruijn" and "de Bruyn". They're all treated like it is an "ui".

The combinations "uij" and "uy" are derelict, only to be found in names, not in nouns or verbs.

Placing an "i" after another vowel originally was a way to specify a longer form of that particular vowel.

For example, there is a dutch surname "Oster" which is pronounced just like in english; but there is a city "Oisterwijk" which is pronounced "Ow-ster-wike". You don't hear the "i" at all, because it's only there to make the "o" longer. This is a relic from medieval times.

1254. Tuuur (gw-kamst.gw.utwente.nl) – 22 Jan 2004 03:46:19 [ and Greek ]

No no no, it's NOT "de-BROIN", otherwise we dutch would have spelled it that way.
It's something completely different, a sound not known in english.

On www.learndutch.org I found an example where you can hear the sound ui in dutch.
The man says: "Maak de zinnen af. GEBRUIK de woorden van de foto." (which means something like "complete the sentences, use the words shown in the photo")
http://www.learndutch.org/Lesson2/vocab/audio/zinnen.au

1253. Tom 7 (h-69-3-248-89.phlapafg.dynamic.covad.net) – 21 Jan 2004 22:22:36 [ and Greek ]

That's what it seems to imply, Jeff, though there are other pages on the internet that also claim authoritatively that it is de brown.

1252. Jeff (yale128036076025.student.yale.edu) – 21 Jan 2004 20:45:32 [ and Greek ]

Does that mean that it's "de-BROIN"? I've always liked that much better than "de-BROWN".

1251. nebulawindphone (pool-68-162-170-36.pitt.east.verizon.net) – 21 Jan 2004 18:22:07 [ and Greek ]

I think it goes back to the Romans actually. Ancient Greek had a vowel in it that sounds like the French 'u' or the German u-with-dots-over-it. The Greek letter for it is Upsilon, which is that Y-with-curly-arms that you sometimes see on frat house signs. The Romans borrowed a lot of words from Greek. They used the letter Y to write that vowel, but they pronounced it just like it was an I. So their alphabet had two letters for the same sound -- one (I) for Latin words, and one (Y, the "Greek I") for Greek words.

Or something like that, anyway.

1250. mike (cmu-89128.wv.cc.cmu.edu) – 21 Jan 2004 17:59:50 [ and Greek ]

I was always a fan of
H: hache (ach-ay)
I: i (eeeee)
J: jota (ho-tah)
K: ka (kah)
in spanish...It sounds like chinese or something.

1249. Tom 7 (gs82.sp.cs.cmu.edu) – 21 Jan 2004 15:31:07 [ and Greek ]

My bad...